"how will we know, dad?"
i mentioned my kids' obligation to take the keys and perhaps the keyboard when it's time, and their interest to know how to tell when it's time. well, reading the comments on the surveillance camera post on the dick howe site, i'm reminded by tom's contribution that sitting in ones living room listening to the police scanner is something a lot of people (me included) attribute to the elders of the community. (though my college classmate living in vermont has his on all day long--yeah, i guess we're old, too...)
anyway, having been taken to task by the anonymous detractor insisting that the bar i love to hate (his implication, not mine--i would so dearly love to love it for all its potential there on the corner of market and palmer, and part of the reason for the complaints is wishing sincerely there wouldn't need to be any) shouldn't be trashed out loud owing to their being so many more worthwhile targets, i'll take the liberty of clipping and pasting tom's comment and leaving it here for people to consider:
"last saturday night for example, there were no fewer than 10 fights between 12-2am, as witnessed on my police scanner. detail officers in the bars calling for backup at hookslides, garcia brogans, the brewery and brians"
ok, is anyone else yet appalled?
this is exactly the stuff that the license commission ignores when the superintendent brings it to their attention asking for fair and active enforcement of liquor rules. 10 fights? you can't tell me there isn't some degree of overserving going on their somewhere. well, you can, but i won't believe you. nope, not one (apparently) from the anonymous detractor's favorite bar. good on them. (well, good on them i think--as i've told you, the policy there as observed first-hand while in the bar is not to call the cops when there are fights, and that's not my idea of right).
anyway anyway, so here's my take: i LIKE the fact that these places hire details on weekends. i LIKE the fact that the fights are reported, and, unlike tom implies, i'm not necessarily missing the fact that arrests are not necessarily forthcoming in all cases. (though out of 10, you'd think there'd be at least a couple, so i'm with tom as far as that goes). i LIKE the fact that it's now all out in the open so we all (including the license commissioners) can know what's going on. BUT i DO NOT like that there are fights in all these bars, and so many of them. there's no place for it. maybe it's because i'm old, but i just don't see a place for it.
i really can't comment on the brewery. i've only been there twice in five years, despite being in the beer works more often than i can count before and after baseball games and etc. but i can comment on garcia brogans: i've heard second hand by relatives that off duty cops have been assaulted there, (maybe they didn't tell the superintendent they were there so the superintendent didn't know not to suggest garcia brogan's was one of the "better" bars), and in addition to attending music performances and open mics there on numerous occasions, and watching the occasional ball game there, i spend a lot of time at a friend's apartment across the street (not as much time as that friend thinks i should, but, hey, it's all the way on the other side of the canal!!! and the games would be because she doesn't have a tv) and have seen a reasonable amount of crap there for sure. she's had to step over drunks in her doorway, and, when asking the bouncers at GB's for a hand with them, been denied any assistance, which i didn't think was cool even if the drunk wasn't one of theirs--it's right across from their entrance for crissakes. but not as bad as hookslides and brian's ivy hall in terms of numbers. which brings me to the big two downtown, who attract alone likely as many patrons as all the other places downtown put together when they are rolling. brian's brags on their facebook page of having 700 and 800 people in there, even though their room is rated for fewer than 500. we can hope they mean cumulative and they turn the room over twice in a night, but perhaps the fire marshalls would know better. when i'm there it tends not to be on the big dj nights, and it's never over capacity, and i've not been witness to anything deserving of appearing on a police scanner. i've found kevin and the other owners there to be responsive when i've had concerns. (i talked to them at length about noise complaints from other members of the downtown neighborhood association, for one example). they've attended most of the downtown meetings, and by hiring details are in continuing cooperation with the department, even if they aren't held up as the shining example as is hookslide kelly's. hookslides main differentiation is that they bar entry after 1am to anyone new coming to the bar. they've recommended that other owners downtown do the same, and i agree that would be a useful deterrent to the destination drunks who turn up late and wind up doing wrong. doesn't fix the session drunks who get their early and tank up over the course of the evening, but if i am to believe the liquor enforcement forays taken by the department, neither brian's nor hookslides has been cited for overserving, and that's encouraging.
which takes us back to the smokehouse. not one of tom's scanner calls, but it's the wild card in the mix that causes a lot of the frustration. they're the ones caught repeatedly with underage kids in their bar, and the ones not taken to task for it by the liquor commissioners. back when i used to hang out watching the live music at fortunato's back when they had live music at fortunato's, i'd entertain myself during breaks watching the prosti-tots (i can't take credit for that one--that's my friend from across from garcia brogan's) teeter across the cobblestones of the palmer and middle street intersection on their way there. it used to be more fun before they put in the flat poured concrete crosswalks, but there's still a fair number of spills that are not completely explainable by just the height of their heels. but there they go, and there they get served. i've seen more than a few shows there, and didn't have any trouble, but i'm not thinking there never is. (when they had the hip hop shows in there on thursdays it got pretty hairy, and i know enough of the performers to have heard more than a few stories).
so, in summary, 10 fights????
10 fights???
when is someone going to put a little attention on enforcing the rules whenever broken or bent, so that the bars don't cater to the folks who puke and piss and vandalize and fight?
it's something in dire need of happening.
anyway, having been taken to task by the anonymous detractor insisting that the bar i love to hate (his implication, not mine--i would so dearly love to love it for all its potential there on the corner of market and palmer, and part of the reason for the complaints is wishing sincerely there wouldn't need to be any) shouldn't be trashed out loud owing to their being so many more worthwhile targets, i'll take the liberty of clipping and pasting tom's comment and leaving it here for people to consider:
"last saturday night for example, there were no fewer than 10 fights between 12-2am, as witnessed on my police scanner. detail officers in the bars calling for backup at hookslides, garcia brogans, the brewery and brians"
ok, is anyone else yet appalled?
this is exactly the stuff that the license commission ignores when the superintendent brings it to their attention asking for fair and active enforcement of liquor rules. 10 fights? you can't tell me there isn't some degree of overserving going on their somewhere. well, you can, but i won't believe you. nope, not one (apparently) from the anonymous detractor's favorite bar. good on them. (well, good on them i think--as i've told you, the policy there as observed first-hand while in the bar is not to call the cops when there are fights, and that's not my idea of right).
anyway anyway, so here's my take: i LIKE the fact that these places hire details on weekends. i LIKE the fact that the fights are reported, and, unlike tom implies, i'm not necessarily missing the fact that arrests are not necessarily forthcoming in all cases. (though out of 10, you'd think there'd be at least a couple, so i'm with tom as far as that goes). i LIKE the fact that it's now all out in the open so we all (including the license commissioners) can know what's going on. BUT i DO NOT like that there are fights in all these bars, and so many of them. there's no place for it. maybe it's because i'm old, but i just don't see a place for it.
i really can't comment on the brewery. i've only been there twice in five years, despite being in the beer works more often than i can count before and after baseball games and etc. but i can comment on garcia brogans: i've heard second hand by relatives that off duty cops have been assaulted there, (maybe they didn't tell the superintendent they were there so the superintendent didn't know not to suggest garcia brogan's was one of the "better" bars), and in addition to attending music performances and open mics there on numerous occasions, and watching the occasional ball game there, i spend a lot of time at a friend's apartment across the street (not as much time as that friend thinks i should, but, hey, it's all the way on the other side of the canal!!! and the games would be because she doesn't have a tv) and have seen a reasonable amount of crap there for sure. she's had to step over drunks in her doorway, and, when asking the bouncers at GB's for a hand with them, been denied any assistance, which i didn't think was cool even if the drunk wasn't one of theirs--it's right across from their entrance for crissakes. but not as bad as hookslides and brian's ivy hall in terms of numbers. which brings me to the big two downtown, who attract alone likely as many patrons as all the other places downtown put together when they are rolling. brian's brags on their facebook page of having 700 and 800 people in there, even though their room is rated for fewer than 500. we can hope they mean cumulative and they turn the room over twice in a night, but perhaps the fire marshalls would know better. when i'm there it tends not to be on the big dj nights, and it's never over capacity, and i've not been witness to anything deserving of appearing on a police scanner. i've found kevin and the other owners there to be responsive when i've had concerns. (i talked to them at length about noise complaints from other members of the downtown neighborhood association, for one example). they've attended most of the downtown meetings, and by hiring details are in continuing cooperation with the department, even if they aren't held up as the shining example as is hookslide kelly's. hookslides main differentiation is that they bar entry after 1am to anyone new coming to the bar. they've recommended that other owners downtown do the same, and i agree that would be a useful deterrent to the destination drunks who turn up late and wind up doing wrong. doesn't fix the session drunks who get their early and tank up over the course of the evening, but if i am to believe the liquor enforcement forays taken by the department, neither brian's nor hookslides has been cited for overserving, and that's encouraging.
which takes us back to the smokehouse. not one of tom's scanner calls, but it's the wild card in the mix that causes a lot of the frustration. they're the ones caught repeatedly with underage kids in their bar, and the ones not taken to task for it by the liquor commissioners. back when i used to hang out watching the live music at fortunato's back when they had live music at fortunato's, i'd entertain myself during breaks watching the prosti-tots (i can't take credit for that one--that's my friend from across from garcia brogan's) teeter across the cobblestones of the palmer and middle street intersection on their way there. it used to be more fun before they put in the flat poured concrete crosswalks, but there's still a fair number of spills that are not completely explainable by just the height of their heels. but there they go, and there they get served. i've seen more than a few shows there, and didn't have any trouble, but i'm not thinking there never is. (when they had the hip hop shows in there on thursdays it got pretty hairy, and i know enough of the performers to have heard more than a few stories).
so, in summary, 10 fights????
10 fights???
when is someone going to put a little attention on enforcing the rules whenever broken or bent, so that the bars don't cater to the folks who puke and piss and vandalize and fight?
it's something in dire need of happening.
posted by kad barma at 8:30 PM
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