better late than
over at right side of lowell, cliff posted a thoughtful item about "progressive regret" in wisconsin. its premise is that much was lost when the collective frustration of 100,000 citizens was co-opted as a political cudgel by one party against another, without any regard for the interest of the 100,000. as you can see by the comments, i agree with the sentiment, to which a partisan participant in the discussion raised an analogy to the question "at what point do the sports fans effect the score?"
my reply, likely lost because of my delay in offering it, i will presume to post here as well, in case that can continue to discussion:
"that's a bad analogy that betrays the fallacy of your own point--it's not a game to be won, or lost. only partisan D's and R's can't see the forest (the interests of our "we the people" nation) for the trees of their mindless and endless opposition to each other. a better analogy is the futility of trying to be heard in a crowded room while everyone else is shouting at each other. the constructive first step is to stop shouting. the next step, is seek the reasonable conversation, and support it".
i would posit that the evidence is overwhelming that the democrat and republican parties have devolved into a permanent shouting match against each other, without the least bit of demonstrated interest in solving problems. if the choice is between solving something, or defeating the opposition before they do, the choice these days is to always try to defeat the opposition. refusing to participate in that kind of mob v. mob political violence is not analogous to spectating. it is returning to the actual actions of government at its most elemental level. (as tip famously said, "all politics is local").
get involved.
step 1: drop out of the war between the competitive D vs R rackets
step 2: engage in politics as a citizen intent on solving problems
step 3: prepare to be attacked by both D's and R's who will prefer to perpetuate their co-monopoly on misused power than to actually do what's right for our country.
step 4: keep your eye on the goal, which is fair constitutional government of, by and for the people.
edited to add the salient portion of the response from the d-addled correspondent to the aforementioned sentiment: "you are self pleasuring to political kiddie porn".
you tell me if you think this sort of political "dialogue" is what might be needed.
sapere aude. unenroll. stop aiding and abetting asshole politics. don't remain part of the problem. become part of the solution.
my reply, likely lost because of my delay in offering it, i will presume to post here as well, in case that can continue to discussion:
"that's a bad analogy that betrays the fallacy of your own point--it's not a game to be won, or lost. only partisan D's and R's can't see the forest (the interests of our "we the people" nation) for the trees of their mindless and endless opposition to each other. a better analogy is the futility of trying to be heard in a crowded room while everyone else is shouting at each other. the constructive first step is to stop shouting. the next step, is seek the reasonable conversation, and support it".
i would posit that the evidence is overwhelming that the democrat and republican parties have devolved into a permanent shouting match against each other, without the least bit of demonstrated interest in solving problems. if the choice is between solving something, or defeating the opposition before they do, the choice these days is to always try to defeat the opposition. refusing to participate in that kind of mob v. mob political violence is not analogous to spectating. it is returning to the actual actions of government at its most elemental level. (as tip famously said, "all politics is local").
get involved.
step 1: drop out of the war between the competitive D vs R rackets
step 2: engage in politics as a citizen intent on solving problems
step 3: prepare to be attacked by both D's and R's who will prefer to perpetuate their co-monopoly on misused power than to actually do what's right for our country.
step 4: keep your eye on the goal, which is fair constitutional government of, by and for the people.
edited to add the salient portion of the response from the d-addled correspondent to the aforementioned sentiment: "you are self pleasuring to political kiddie porn".
you tell me if you think this sort of political "dialogue" is what might be needed.
sapere aude. unenroll. stop aiding and abetting asshole politics. don't remain part of the problem. become part of the solution.
posted by kad barma at 5:53 PM
11 Comments:
More accurately: You are self pleasuring to political kiddie porn sold by Ron Paul.
choosing a soliloquy
If Doctor Paul might agree with me, then good on him. That you prefer ad hominem attacks against honestly-held political opinions is neither good on you, nor your chosen political party.
Why does it offend you so much that I would prefer to be both politically active, as well as unenrolled in any particular political party? Does that make my voice, and Bernie Sanders, and others, less worthy of respect? You certainly act through your words to suggest so.
I think that's wrong. You're entitled to your opinion. And other readers can make up their own minds about that, too.
I don't represent a party, I represent me. See my name.
I was unenrolled for years. Normally, favored Dems because they support working folks. As I watched the national GOP collapse under the pressure of Xenophobes, radical Christiandom and Grover Norquist, I opted to pick a team.
Some rather stay clean, finger wagging at the imperfections of the system. I get it. Having no skin the game is safe. Free to condemn from a tidy perch.
I just don't respect taunts from bystanders.
Lowell is a perfect venue for such things to be set aside. I'm confident that our differences in seeking a "more perfect Union" won't inhibit future collaborations in striving for a "more perfect Lowell."
What do you mean, "no skin in the game"????????
See, this is the absolute essence of the issue: Everyone's skin is in the game of whether or not government works, or doesn't work. Someone who only perceives "skin" in the ascendency of one party over another is focused on an entirely different game.
I reject that game. I reject that a political party succeeding over another has any relevance whatsoever.
What matters is what is accomplished--what citizens are helped vs which citizens are hurt by our government. That you can only see "skin" in the contest between one letter (say, "D") against another (say, "R") is a sad commentary on how you and so many others have lost the thread.
The object is good government. NOT party success. It's too bad that you and so many others can't see the difference.
Don't buy his crap KB. Jack is a Democratic political operative and a very well known one at that in local political circles. Hence, NOTHING he says can be taken seriously because its his mission to elect only one type of candidate. His Democratic agenda even permeates local elections, as he has himself admitted in a LiL posting about how he worked to keep a Tea Party candidate off the Lowell City Council.
Jack, you are so full of it. Keep your "I'm a non-partisan" garbage on LiL, where a few of the brainwashed might actually believe you. If you want to venture elsewhere, at least have the integrity to speak the truth.
-Remember in November
RIN,
I use my name. I use it advancing the Democratic Party's agenda. I do it with zeal because the national GOP is ruining us.
I don't remember John McDonald declaring himself as "Tea Party." Also, I called out the use of "sock puppets" and the local GOP gloating about making a "farm team" out of our City Council. Luckily, the voters of Lowell did "Remember THAT November."
Thank you for reading LiL, whoever you are. Please comment and enlighten us.
--------------------------------
kad,
When I drive a nail, I do not consider the "success" of the hammer. The "party" is a tool. (Yes, there is a funny pun here)
I know from history, outsiders can change the world, i.e. Ghandi, MLK & Hitler(the yang to the yin).
Lesser beings, like Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, Ross Perot, Sarah Palin, ect. are limited in effect because their appeal is not broad enough.
For us mere mortals, it takes a village, aka political parties. The village is a contentious gaggle of squabbling. Yet, we find a way to forge a platform and push forward.
I'll work with the "good" while you busy yourself comparing it to the theoretical "perfect."
If you're not turned on to politics, politics will turn on you. - Ralph Nader
Jack, please read the list of recommendations I offered above, none of which advised waiting for "perfect" before diving in, being involved, and pushing forward. I'll repeat here for review:
step 1: drop out of the war between the competitive D vs R rackets
step 2: engage in politics as a citizen intent on solving problems
step 3: prepare to be attacked by both D's and R's who will prefer to perpetuate their co-monopoly on misused power than to actually do what's right for our country.
step 4: keep your eye on the goal, which is fair constitutional government of, by and for the people.
As you can see, I'm well down the road of numbers 1 and 2 and 3, and I'll take this discussion as your agreement on the importance of number 4. Starting from the most local and proceeding on out, please consider that I serve on the board of trustees of my building. I am a participating member of the LDNA. (A FAR more productive political affiliation than D or R, though my participation remains limited while LDNA meetings are coincident with my Trustees meetings). I attend City Council meetings, License Commission meetings, and regularly petition the Mayor and City Councilors on issues as I believe are most important.
Being involved in the opposition to a candidate because of his or her affiliations, (as opposed to being involved in the support of a candidate for their position on issues), will always be something that I prefer not to be. If only that were more consistently the case with party-affiliated people, who are otherwise destroying our government's ability to function.
Enjoy your ride on the mono-rail, kid.
Are you disavowing your LiL post about going after McDonald for the sake of going after him and strangling him in the crib? If so, lemme remind you and anyone else who is under the mistaken impression you are an intellectually honest man:
http://www.leftinlowell.com/2012/03/24/strangle-him-in-the-crib/#more-3619
You're a fraud Jack. You try to come off as some kind of deep thinking intellectual, but you're nothing more than a useless grunt, used and abused by a political party at the lowest levels so the upper echelon of donkeys can dance at the same corrupt ball the other side does. At least be man enough to admit what you are, like your girl Lynne does. Pretending you're something else shows what a fraud you really are.
BTW, hope you remembered to make your donation to the Boys and Girls club after the last drubbing your national donkeys got. Care to make another bet there on this November, "kid" - Remember in November
Thanks for the crazy mad street cred, RIN. My billable rate will mulitply by a factor of 2 or 3, thanks to you!
What is 3 times zero, RIN? Try teh Google.
Anyways, the overarching theme to that diary is that in Lowell, party doesn't matter. Money does. McDonald was rejected because he was fronting for Sal Lupoli. Sal is a threat to the cozy, monied interests here.
Do I need to speak slower for you, RIN?
Thus, back to kad, party politics is a tool. Some use it to build. Some use it as a cudgel. Others, see it as a swiss army knife.
Yodel-ay-hee-hoo!
No need to speak slowly Jack, unless of course, you want to catch up to your own lies.
Another failing of liberals and donkeys in general. They think they're smarter than the rest of the world. Makes them feel cool and superior in their little party caucauses. In reality, exposes them for the fools and frauds they really are. Go back to LiL and take your marching orders, like the good little party tool you are.
As for the general theme of your post here KB, I couldn't agree more. I also believe the day will come in our lifetime. The right and left have gone so extreme, there's a big enough opening there for the rest of us to plow through. We just need the respected national figure to make the stand and lead the way. No Ross Perot. A true centrist with sanity intact.
It'll happen voluntarily, or by the inevitable European like collapse the current path is leading us toward. But make no mistake, its coming.- RIN
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